One issue here with some of the latter numbers is that a lot of the work is being done by the expected value of the far future being very high, and (to a lesser extent) by us living in the hinge of history.
Among the set of potential longtermist projects to work on (e.g. AI alignment, vs. technical biosecurity, or EA community building, or longtermist grantmaking, or AI policy, or macrostrategy), I don't think the present analysis of very high ethical value (in absolute terms) should be dispositive in causing someone to choose careers in AI alignment.
Yes, that is true. I'm sure those other careers are also tremendously valuable. Frankly I have no idea if they're more or less valuable than direct AI safety work. I wasn't making any attempt to compare them (though doing so would be useful). My main counterfactual was a regular career in academia or something, and I chose to look at AI safety because I think I might have good personal fit and I saw opportunities to get into that area.
This seems like one of the best written summaries of AI safety.
The OP is a great writer, covers a lot of considerations, and is succinct and well organized.
People at any of the AI safety orgs should probably reach out to this person, so they can do AI safety stuff.
(Holden Karnofsky’s posts are good too).
This is a touchingly earnest comment. Also is your ldap qiurui? If those words mean nothing to you, I've got the wrong guy :)
(I cancelled the vote on my comment so it doesn't appear in the "newsfeed", this is because it's sort of like a PM and of low interest to others.)
No, I don't know what that means. But, yes I'm earnest about my comment and thanks for the appreciation.
Thanks! Means a lot :)
(I promise this is not my alt account flattering myself)
I'll be attending MLAB2 in Berkeley this August so hopefully I'll meet some people there.
Hey there!
the AI safety research seems unlikely to have strong enough negative unexpected consequences to outweigh the positive ones in expectation.
The word "unexpected" sort of makes that sentence trivially true. If we remove it, I'm not sure the sentence is true. [EDIT: while writing this I misinterpreted the sentence as: "AI safety research seems unlikely to end up causing more harm than good"] Some of the things to consider (written quickly, plausibly contains errors, not a complete list):
[Michael Nielsen] has tweeted about how he thinks one of the biggest impacts of EA concerns with AI x-risk was to cause the creation of DeepMind and OpenAI, and to accelerate overall AI progress. I’m not saying that he’s necessarily right, and I’m not saying that that is clearly bad from an existential risk perspective, I’m just saying that strikes me as a way in which well-meaning increasing salience and awareness of risks could have turned out to be harmful in a way that has not been… I haven’t seen that get a lot of grappling or attention from the EA community. I think you could tell obvious parallels around how talking a lot about biorisk could turn out to be a really bad idea.
And here's the CEO of Conjecture (59:50) [EDIT: this is from 2020, probably before Conjecture was created]:
If you're a really good machine learning engineer, consider working for OpenAI consider working for DeepMind, or someone else with good safety teams.
On the one hand, small-scale catastrophes might create an immune response that makes us better, puts in place better safeguards, and stuff like that, that could protect us from the big stuff. If we’re thinking about medium-scale catastrophes that could cause civilizational collapse, large by ordinary standards but only medium-scale in comparison to existential catastrophes, which are large in this context, again, it is not totally obvious what the sign of that is: there’s a lot more work to be done to try to figure that out. If recovery looks very likely, you might then have guesses as to whether the recovered civilization would be more likely to avoid existential catastrophe having gone through this experience or not.
I think if you have the opposite perspective and think we live in a really vulnerable world — maybe an offense-biased world where it’s much easier to do great harm than to protect against it — I think that increasing attention to anthropogenic risks could be really dangerous in that world. Because I think not very many people, as we discussed, go around thinking about the vast future. If one in every 1,000 people who go around thinking about the vast future decide, “Wow, I would really hate for there to be a vast future; I would like to end it,” and if it’s just 1,000 times easier to end it than to stop it from being ended, that could be a really, really dangerous recipe where again, everybody’s well intentioned, we’re raising attention to these risks that we should reduce, but the increasing salience of it could have been net negative.
Also, low quality research or poor discussion can make it less likely that important decision makers will take AI safety seriously.
Important point. I changed
... AI safety research seems unlikely to have strong enough negative unexpected consequences to outweigh the positive ones in expectation.
to
... Still, it's possible that there will be a strong enough flow of negative (unforseen) consequences to outweigh the positives. We should take these seriously, and try to make them less unforseen so we can correct for them, or at least have more accurate expected-value estimates. But given what's at stake, they would need to be pretty darn negative to pull down the expected values enough to outweigh a non-trivial risk of extinction.
Nice! I really like this analysis, particularly the opportunity to see how many present-day lives would be saved in expectation. I mostly agree with it, but two small disagreements:
First, I’d say that there are already more than 100 people working directly on AI safety, making that an unreasonable lower bound for the number of people working on it over the next 20 years. This would include most of the staff of Anthropic, Redwood, MIRI, Cohere, and CHAI; many people at OpenAI, Deepmind, CSET, and FHI; and various individuals at Berkeley, NYU, Cornell, Harvard, MIT, and elsewhere. There’s also tons of funding and field-building going on right now which should increase future contributions. This is a perennial question that deserves a more detailed analysis than this comment, but here’s some sources that might be useful:
Ben Todd would guess it’s about 100 people, so maybe my estimate was wrong: https://twitter.com/ben_j_todd/status/1489985966714544134?s=21&t=Swy2p2vMZmUSi3HaGDFFAQ
Second, I strongly believe that most of the impact in AI safety will come from a handful of the most impactful individuals. Moreover I think it’s reasonable to make guesses about where you’ll fall in that distribution. For example, somebody with a history of published research who can get into a top PhD program has a much higher expected impact than somebody who doesn’t have strong career capital to leverage for AI safety. The question of whether you could become one of the most successful people in your field might be the most important component of personal fit and could plausibly dominate considerations of scale and neglectedness in an impact analysis.
For more analysis of the heavy-tailed nature of academic success, see: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/PFxmd5bf7nqGNLYCg/a-bird-s-eye-view-of-the-ml-field-pragmatic-ai-safety-2
But great post, thanks for sharing!
Yeah your first point is probably true, 100 may be unreasonable even as a lower bound (in the rightmost column). I should change it.
--
Following your second point, I changed:
Upon entering the field you may receive sufficiently strong indications that you will not be able to be a part of the most efficacious fraction of AI safety researchers.
to
Upon entering the field (or just on reviewing your own personal fit) you may receive sufficiently strong indications that you will not be able to be a part of the most efficacious fraction of AI safety researchers.
This table explores the ethical expected-value of a career in AI safety, under different opinions about AI and the long-term future. I made it for considering the robustness of the value of my possible career choice to different ways my opinions could change, but it may be useful to others also considering a career in AI safety, or for convincing people more skeptical of fast AI timelines that safety work is still important.
My main finding is that you need to hold a pretty specific combination of confident beliefs for AI safety work not to seem tremendously valuable in expected impact, and I personally find those beliefs pretty untenable. I also made a sheet where you can put in your own numbers, to see the implications of your own opinion.
Read the “Explanation” section below if you’re confused about anything.

i.e. something like those in the leftmost column: safety work is likely to be well-staffed, yet very unlikely to be useful, and humanity will go extinct soon with very high probability anyway. I personally find those beliefs pretty untenable - especially the amount of certainty they require about AGI and the long-term future of humanity.
For the AI skeptical: This doesn't mean we're all going to die! - Just that this work seems like a robustly good opportunity because the stakes are so high relative to the chances of having a positive impact, even if we're very likely to be fine anyway.
For the non-skeptical: Reasonable people certainly disagree whether the median scenario looks anything like "we're fine", and I'm very sympathetic to that too. It's just that for answering the binary question of "should more people be working on this?", the median scenario is surprisingly unimportant right now. I'm showing that even people with heavy skepticism and very slow AI timelines should agree that more AI safety work is important, so long as they have some reasonable uncertainties in their views.
AI (Artificial Intelligence) safety research seems to have tremendous expected moral value. Most of this expected value probably does not come from the median scenario, so the work will probably look less impactful in hindsight, but this should be no argument against it, as the potential impacts are just so huge, and their probabilities seem plausibly nontrivial. Additionally, there is a range of possibly tractable and useful research areas, widening further as AI capabilities increase.
My definition of strong AGI (Artificial General Intelligence): A system which can (or which can be finetuned to) accomplish most current economically useful objectives more effectively than a very effective person in that field. This includes reasoning about the world (and the humans in it), and making predictions.
Why have you looked at mostly slower timelines here when most of the sources you link have faster timelines?
These are not independent; progress on one is likely to be useful to the others, and more data & compute alone could concievably be sufficient for all. On the other hand, I’m sure I’m missing some.
Again, I hold these credences very weakly. Substitute your own.
Various actors (eg. companies looking for profit) would benefit from making AI systems which behave like “agents” pursuing some external goals in the world. When machine-learning systems are trained, however, their learned internal “goals” (to the extent that they have them) are merely selected to produce good behaivour on the training data, and so their internal goals often differ importantly from the external goals on which they were trained, which can lead to them competently pursuing an unintended goal.
As an analogy, evolution selected us to “maximize inclusive reproductive fitness” creating a jumble of values and goals which led to behaivour looking a lot like “maximizing inclusive reproductive fitness” in our past evolutionary environment. However our internalized goals are quite different to “maximize inclusive reproductive fitness”. This misalignment is apparent now that many things (eg. contraceptives, abundant sugar, technology, global society) have taken us out of evolution’s “training environment”. See mesa-optimization and inner-alignment (video).
Additionally, we cannot currently infer a model's internal goals (or if it has any) by looking inside it, so we are currently only able to infer discrepancies through behaviour. As a result, detecting when a system is an "agent" or is optimizing for some goal is difficult, and goal-pursuing agents might emerge for instrumental reasons in cases where we are not explicity selecting the AI to behave like a goal-pursuing agent.
AIs could have just about any internal goal, and just about any goal is compatible with ssuperhuman capabilities. A “misaligned” AI would be any AI with an internal goal not fully aligned with our values, with the discrepancy eventually being actualized in some important way. See the orthogonality thesis (video).
An AI with coherent intrinisic goals is incentivized to do whatever it can to raise the probability of achieving them. Some ways that a misaligned AI could fail to have its goals achieved: Humans shutting it down; Humans changing its goals; Humans discovering that it is misaligned before it is in a position where humans are no longer able to change it. See instrumental convergence (video)
Finally, even if the internal goal of the AI matches the external goal on which it was trained, it seems hard to find goals which are both well-specified and aligned with human values when pursued by AIs with exremely high capabilities.
Definition of existential risk
The main way we might make a misaligned powerful AI and still be lucky enough to not all die is if it happens to be incompetent enough in some relevant area far outside its training set that we can leverage that area to outwit and stop it. In other words, If the AI has low alignment robustness, but also low capability robustness, we might be ok. Additionally, see Counterarguments to the basic AI risk case for many more ways we might be ok.
There are many important, neglected, tractable (enough) research topics to pursue:
This is only upper-bounded by the laws of physics and the time until all the stars die out. The lower bound depends on your optimism for the human species. The potential is vast - If they aren’t extinct, far future beings in a post-scarcity society will have had the time to figure out how to be much happier, more fulfilled, more numerous, and more ethical, (or to change their biologies to achieve this) spreading more of whatever is good throughout the galaxy, or preserving or restoring it if it was already there.
A note on expected values: Unless you give a vanishingly small probability to futures where we expand through the universe, or develop mind-uploading technology, these should influence your expected values for the number of beings in the future, pulling your expected numbers up far above the median scenario. And if you think the probability is vanishingly small, it still has to vanish as fast as the potential population increases - getting down to less than about 1 in 1050 once you start talking about scenarios with virtual-mind carrying machines expanding through the universe.
Put differently, most of the people who will ever live in the future possible histories of the universe will probably live in fairly low-probability scenarios, made up for by their extreme proliferation in that low-probability scenario (unless you think extreme proliferation is the median scenario, or extreme proliferation is even more extremely unlikely). This is somewhat akin to where we find ourselves today, as viewed from the distant (geologic-time) past.
Let me know if you have any feedback.
Thanks for this exercise, it's great to do this kind of thinking explicitly and get other eyes on it.
One issue that jumps out at me to adjust: the calculation of researcher impact doesn't seem to be marginal impact. You give a 10% chance of the alignment research community averting disaster conditional on misalignment by default in the scenarios where safety work is plausibly important, then divide that by the expected number of people in the field to get a per-researcher impact. But in expectation you should expect marginal impact to be less than average impact: the chance the alignment community averts disaster with 500 people seems like a lot more than half the chance it would do so with 1000 people.
I would distribute my credence in alignment research making the difference over a number of doublings of the cumulative quality-adjusted efforts, e.g. say that you get an x% reduction of risk per doubling over some range.
Although in that framework if you would likely have doom with zero effort, that means we have more probability of making the difference to distribute across the effort levels above zero. The results could be pretty similar but a bit smaller than yours above if we thought that the marginal doubling of cumulative effort was worth a 5-10% relative risk reduction.
This is a good point I hadn't considered. I've added a few rows calculating a marginal correction-factor to the google sheet and I'll update the table if you think they're sensible.
The new correction factor is based on integrating an exponentially decaying function from N_researchers to N_researchers+1, with the decay rate set by a question about the effect of halving the size of the AI alignment community. Make sure to expand the hidden rows in the doc if you want to see the calculations.
Caveats: No one likes me. I don't know anything about AI safety, and I have trouble reading spreadsheets. I use paperclips sometimes to make sculptures.
Ok, this statement about marginal effects is internally consistent....but this seems more than a little nitpicky?
It would be great for my comment here is to be wrong and be stomped all over!
Also, if there is a more substantial reason this post can be expanded, that seems useful.
Please don't ban me.
I didn't read it actually.
Like, Chris Olah might be brilliant and 100x better than every other AI safety person/approach. At the same time, we could easily imagine that, no matter what, he's not going to get AI safety by himself, but an entire org like Anthropic might, right?
As an example, one activist doesn't seem to think any current AI safety intervention is effective at all.
In that person's worldview/opinion, applying a log production function doesn't seem right. It's unlikely that say, 7 doublings would do it (100x more quality adjusted people) in this rigid function, since the base probability is so low.
In reality, I think that in that person's worldview, certain configurations of 100x more talent would be effective.